In 1994, Jon Gonzalez of Fond Affexxions magazine conducted an interview with Ryan and Suzanne for a Projekt Records promotional cassette. This cassette served to promote both Love Spirals Downwards’ sophomore album, Ardor, and the various artist tribute to Black Tape For A Blue Girl, Of These Reminders, both released the same year. In addition to the interview, the cassette also includes “Write In Water” from Ardor, and “Could I Stay The Honest One?” from Of These Reminders. Quotes from this interview were also used for a “Shorttake” article on Love Spirals Downwards in Fond Affexxions Issue 5: Winter Thaw 1995. We recently unearthed and digitized the audio from this archival tape and made it available on YouTube.

AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION:

Jon: We’re talking to Ryan Lum and Suzanne Perry of the duo Love Spirals Downwards, and I’m Jon Gonzalez and I write for Fond Affexxions. This is like the second interview I’ve done with these two and we’re gonna talk to them a little bit about the new record. They have a new record out called Ardor.

Ryan: [correcting Jon’s mispronunciation] Ardor.

Jon: Ardor!

Ryan: Yeah.

Jon: So isn’t that with an “e” then?

Ryan: A-R-D-O-R, Ardor. It kinda rhymes with “harder,” I guess.

Jon: [shocked]That’s what I…

Suzanne: [expels air in a dismissive way]

Jon: [flustered] Yeah, that’s the obvious male… Anyway! 

Suzanne: [laughs awkwardly]

Jon: Um… OK! Well, I… I called you guys when you gave me the tape [of Ardor] and I remember I called you the very next night and I was like, all, “fuhhh!” It really blew me away! I really, really, really liked it. I think it’s a progression that I didn’t think you guys were going to make so quickly. I think you really progressed! It doesn’t seem like the record is a collection of songs, it seems more like a conceptual thing. Was that an intention that you had or was it, I mean… Was it a collection of songs that just so happens to sound like a conceptual one?

Ryan: Want me to answer that? Well, our first album, Idylls, more so than this one was a collection of songs. Um, it just kinda happens it was all the songs we had made up ’til then, when we released our debut album. A lot of those songs for Idylls I had never intended to be released ever, they were just demos — not all of them, maybe half the songs were just demos — that got turned into real songs. On this new album, um, since we were signed, obviously I knew they were going to be released. As far as a concept, um… no, not really. I had more — on this album — of a sound concept, but it kinda hit me when I was almost done with the album. Maybe the way I mixed the songs kinda tied them all together.

Jon: Suzanne, what about you? How are your feelings on it?

Suzanne: Hmm… just thinking. I mean I usually start out when we’re making something, I usually don’t think of that it’s going to have any kind of concept per se, but now that I think about it, I think… I think I did shoot for a little bit more… using more lyrics, um… and because of some criticisms we got, I think I did like…kinda shoot for trying to make things longer? I don’t know, but I don’t think any of it was really, like, well thought out. I don’t think I planned it. I don’t think any of it was really planned.

Jon: Criticism? What? From what? What angle?

Suzanne: Just from… a little bit of people saying some songs were too short.

Ryan: One guy said that in AP [Alternative Press magazine] or something.

Suzanne: Yeah, but…

Jon: Stuff like that sticks with you!

Suzanne: But I think I always felt like maybe they were a little too short or we could have pushed this song a little further, you know? 

Jon: Went down the road a little further?

Suzanne: Yeah. Or yeah! Maybe gone a little further. But it’s interesting that you get that there’s some kinda concept. Can I ask what it is? Like what kinda…

Jon: What kind of concept did I have?

Suzanne: Did you mean… Is there some kind of coherency?

Jon: Well, when I say “concept” I mean that in a… not in a very tangible way, but, when I listen to Idylls, I think it just is kind of an escapist, “take me away…” Listen to the lush sounds, listen to the beautiful voice. When I listen to Ardor, um… I get more of a… I get more feeling from it. I think there’s definitely… although it’s not like a, you know, “vote for Kathleen Brown” type of a concept, its more like a… um… Like there’s an idea kinda coming into it, where it’s not just colors and wash and those kinds of things. It’s more like, now… more feeling. Not that the other one had no feeling!

Suzanne: No, I know what you mean.

Jon: It’s starting to become more tangible.

Suzanne: I think you’re right. I think that it does have a little bit more worldliness about it. I think it does, and I think it is… when I was singing, I was trying to attach more… I was trying to be more personable with it. I think that’s true.

Jon: By the way, I was wondering if, um… Since the last time I talked to you, I know you did the Kim Cascone and Silent Records thing. What track was that, by the way, on this new record?

Suzanne: Oh.

Ryan: “Kykeon.”

Suzanne: Yeah.

Ryan: Number 7 or 8?

Jon: Let’s find out! Here’s my tape.

Suzanne: Oh you’ve got it?

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK.

Ryan: “Kykeon.”

Suzanne: It’s “Kykeon.”

Ryan: 6, 7, 8!

Jon: Number 9, tt’s number 8, yeah.

Suzanne: We didn’t know whether we should use that.

Jon: That was it?

Ryan: This one’s remixed, it’s not the same version, but It’s roughly the same thing.

Jon: Oh. Well did you ever get any endorsements for, uh, paper, or windowpanes or anybody’s lab or anything? Since… you know, with the name and everything.

Ryan: Huh?

Jon: Any endorsements… Never mind! I got it twisted!

[all laugh]

Ryan: Ah, OK, I was like “What?!”

Jon:  I dunno know, there’s San Francisco connections.

[still laughing]

Ryan: Well, we did have this one person writing us from Paris writing us we figure it’s…

Suzanne: Yeah.

Ryan: An older person. What did we figure, is it male or female?

Suzanne: We still don’t know to this day if she was a male or female. I think it was… OK!

Ryan: They were 50.

Suzanne: They wrote like they were a “she” and I wrote back in French.

Jon: In French?!

Ryan: They wrote to us in French.

Suzanne: Well, with a little help from my dicky-shun-airy.

Jon: Uh huh.

Suzanne: And so, we wrote back to her… or him. I think its a her because of the writing, it was so flowing.

Jon: Right.

Suzanne: She or he wanted us to send him or her, like… some acid.

Jon: Really?!

Suzanne: I think that they were in code, in French, asking us, “send us some tabs!” Or something. It was very…

Ryan: Because inside the 50 Years of Sunshine CD it says, you know, Love Spirals Downwards “LSD contact address.” So I suppose someone…

Jon: [laughs uproariously]

Ryan: Someone who doesn’t know their English that well might mistake that as “write to these people.”

[general laughter]

Suzanne: We’re your LSD contact.

Ryan: But they knew we were the band, too, so I don’t know. I’m really baffled. I’m completely baffled to this day about that.

[more laughter]

Jon: That’s really weird. That’s cool though, I mean, I love getting stuff like that. [the band laughs] I mean I’ve never had anything THAT weird! That’s pretty cool. I’ve gotten some weird stuff, though. OK, where am I with the questions? Okay, okay. You had five songs on there — or at least, the mixes that made it onto the record… Two or three of them sounded like you might have a single or something there, one of them especially sounded like it would make a really good single. I know you were talking about making a video to, I think it was a different track? What track were you talking about? 

Ryan: We’re thinking about the third track, “Write in Water.”

Jon: OK, it’s “We Write On Water” or “Write On Water”?

Suzanne: It’s just “Write In Water.”

Ryan: “Write In Water,” yeah.

Suzanne: Or the first song, maybe perhaps doing a video, too. Or the…

Jon: Or like both songs? Two videos? Or one video?

Ryan: Right now, as we speak, we’re just discussing what to do. As far as if we’re just doing one song, it would probably be the third song, “Write in Water.”

Jon: OK, and then a close second would be “Will You Fade.”

Ryan: Yeah.

Jon: OK. Now, if that’s the case; what is the video for? Who would that be for? What, I mean, are you gonna… is it a promotional video? Is it gonna be a Projekt collection with you guys?

Ryan: If we do just one video it would be for — or two — it would be for promotion only. It would be sent out to places that would play it. I’m not in charge of that, Projekt takes care of that. That’s roughly what it would be used for. If we do several, then it would be used for promotion, as well as we might sell it, too. Like I said, this is all just being talked about. My best guess is that if we do one — it will probably just be one or two —  and it will be a promotional video, something you’d see on like, public TV and stuff like that.

Jon: Europe Box and stuff like that.

Ryan: Yeah.

Suzanne: I don’t know, ‘cause we just secured the person to do the video like, two or three days ago. So we haven’t even really thought about it. I mean, I was asking questions today about what we’ll use this tape for, so… You know.

Jon: Oh? So you’ve been kept in the dark about THIS, too?

Suzanne: I guess, I haven’t even thought of it much, and I was like, “wait a second, why are we making this? What are we gonna do with it?”

Ryan: I tell her, but I don’t think she…

Suzanne: And then I, and then I say…

Ryan: … keeps it…

Suzanne: I do! And then I say, “Is Jon gonna get royalties?” ‘Cause if we sell it…

Jon: [mock angry] Yeah, wait a minute!

[general laughter]

Ryan: I explained to her! 

Suzanne: [giggles]

Ryan: None of this will be sold! All of this is promotional.

Jon: [mocks suspicion] Uh huh…

Ryan: This tape that we’re on right now, nobody should be buying this, hopefully. 

Jon: Oh, yeah, sure…

Ryan: If someone sold it to you, they’re up to something wrong.

Suzanne: [uneasy laugher] Send Jon a buck! Pay for this tape!

Jon: [laughs heartily] That’s right! OK, anyway… On the record, and I’m sure this was the idea in your continuity of songs, the very first song; it kinda did for me what “Alison” did for Souvlaki, it just, like, “BOOM!” It just slammed me right into it. It wasn’t like the last one, where like the first, ya know? Even with, like Slowdive, if you like at Slowdives second and first records first record was just, you kinda like you get into it later on? Same thing with Idylls, it was like, I started, you know, I heard it a couple times — or maybe the first time — but after three or four songs I kinda got into the flow. This time, this song, it seemed like… just like a single right off the bat, “BOOM!” And then you went into “Sidhe” right after that, which was kinda like, “STOP!,” you know? [Suzanne laughs uneasily] You kinda went the other way.

Ryan: Yeah.

Jon: But anyway, “Will You Fade” is just a beautiful song and it has very much has a traditional pop cycle to it, in that it kinda builds, it has a momentum, a has a great hook and it’s got English lyrics on it, so… I dunno. So I just thought, that was my choice for a single. I don’t make these decisions… but ah… So, when you were talking about this video, the idea of doing a video, that was what I thought. And you said, “We Write On Water” um… “We Write On Water,” to me, was… To me, it wasn’t as strong a song as the first song, but to me, it was a very good song, but it sounded like half way in- between the pop strengths you had on the first song, “Will You Fade,” and it also felt like, rooted in the first record. It sounded like a progression from the first record, in a pop sense, but not as strongly as the first one.

Suzanne: Mmm. Yeah.

Ryan: The first one is probably my favorite song of the album, by the way.

Suzanne: I think that part of the reason why we haven’t been thinking of making a video out of that is that the person that is going to be doing it, Jerry Tavinsky, he feels like it might be harder to get images going with that one, I don’t know why. He just… I think maybe he doesn’t have as many ideas for that, but we’re not even sure since it’s only been… I mean, I personally think “Will You Fade” might be better. So. And I personally like “Will You Fade” better. I’m, I’m more proud of my vocal performances there than… Really, “Write In Water” is actually probably one of my least favorite songs on the album. 

Jon: Really?

Suzanne: I don’t know why that is, but…

Jon: Well, I like that song, I mean, I wouldn’t dump on it.

Suzanne: No, it’s OK, I like it. But, I mean, that’s how much I Iike all the songs. ‘Cause I think that’s a pretty good song but… 

Jon: Yeah, yeah.

SuzanneL I think it’s pretty good, but the other ones, you know… I feel like, you know… I was really careful to make sure that I liked each one a lot.

Jon: There was another thing, when you go into this… you have 5 songs that were more or less, in the loosest of terms, I could consider pop songs, and you have 4 songs that are “Love Spirals Downwards” songs in that they have an indecipherable lyric and the lyric is used more, like, to add an atmosphere to them. Then — correct me if I’m wrong — you have two instrumentals? Or you have one, at least one, that has — like you said, a dub in it — that you couldn’t really even tell that it’s a vocal.

Ryan: Yeah the second to the last song. Yeah it seems like an instrumental…

Suzanne: “Sunset Bell.”

Ryan: Yeah, “Sunset Bell.” It’s technically not an instrumental but yeah, kind of in my mind, I think of it as an instrumental just because the vocals… they are not live, they’re just these big loops of vocals that sound like instruments for the most part.

Jon: Yeah, I… That was a really pretty song. And you have another instrumental song…

Suzanne: “Mirrors A Still Sky.”

Jon: “Mirrors A Still Sky” yeah, that’s was a different, that is another instrumental. The first record didn’t have any instrumentals did it?

Ryan: Um… Yeah.

Suzanne: It had two.

Ryan: Yeah, it had two actually.

Jon: Did it actually? Oh. OK well, harumph! [laughter] Well, “like the first album, you had a couple instrumentals on this one!” [laughter] No, I’m OK. Anyway. Let’s move on and take another turn. OK, so you have the four songs that I wanna say are traditional Love Spirals Downwards songs but were more of like what the first record, which were like indecipherable lush vocal sounds and then you have the songs that have lush vocals sounds, but with lyrics to them. How did you… I mean… What was the difference? As far as like… The last time we talked you said, Suzanne, that you weren’t going to — if I recall — and I have the book here with me, um…

Suzanne: [laughs nervously but playfully]

Jon: “I’m not interested in writing… we’re not interested in any kind of message…” etc etc etc. You get what I’m saying.

Suzanne: Yeah.

Jon: You had told me that in this interview, um, what happened to change that?

Suzanne:  Ummm… 

Jon: Or is it changed?

Ryan: It’s not too much changed. There’s still no message.

Suzanne: No I don’t think there’s… No, there’s definitely not. I’d still say there’s isn’t really a message, I mean, it may have gotten a little bit more personal with lyrics but um… Hmm… Honestly, making nonsense lyrics, I felt like it was going to be kind of the same experience, like if I did that again. I found… We did, we actually did do a couple of songs like that and I think it worked well for the… for the… what I was hearing in the music, then it was a good choice but I didn’t, you know, I tried not to say, “OK, I’m not going to use any lyrics at all.” I dunno! It was just more natural to, you know, use the lyrics that I used. I didn’t really think about it much, I just kinda did it. So to say.

Jon: I asked you this question last time, you wrote the lyric after you heard some music? Is that it?

Suzanne: Always. Yeah. Still the same, yeah, after I hear the music, then write the lyrics. I never… I don’t think I had, no, I didn’t have any of these lyrics written prior to hearing the music, and each… all lyrics were written for each song, like, for that particular song. It wasn’t like I had a book, and I took the lyrics out of a book I’d been writing lyrics in.

Jon: Right. Well, that’s cool.

Suzanne: And even still I think a lot of the lyrics are pretty, I mean, I think that they’re pretty meaningless. At least, you know, in a direct sense. They’re pretty meaningless.

Jon: Right. I mean, you wouldn’t print it and get the same idea by reading a lyric.

Suzanne: I feel like I’m using words but I’m still not really conveying any definite meaning, you  know. I’m using words, but instead of using just nonsense syllables or whatever. I’m using words but I still don’t, like I said, I don’t feel like they have a direct meaning… to everybody, like a universal meaning, so… or message.

Jon: And Ryan, developing a sound, um, you built upon the last record and your guitar playing — I don’t want to say has gotten better but I like the way it’s going and it’s not the same. I mean, where Suzanne has struck out and made some lyrics with English and has dared to be questioned on that, um… you, too, have also made some definite strides in like, going in different directions. Would you care to talk about that? I mean, like, “Sunset Bell” being an example…

Ryan: Which one?

Suzanne: “Sunset Bell.”

Ryan:  Oh, OK. We were just… I don’t think there’s any guitar in that song, actually.

Jon: There ya go!

[laugher]

Suzanne: I think he means, like… You probably mean, like, in “Avicenna”? The kinda real jazzy kinda blues…

Ryan: That’s “Subsequently.”

Suzanne: Also in “Avicenna”!

Jon: I’m not just talking so much about your guitar playing, I’m talking about the way you construct songs, and writing, in addition to guitar playing,

Ryan: Yeah. For me, it’s the whole thing. I kinda look at the whole deal. Even though there’s no guitars in “Sunset Bell” I still look at the song… Yeah I still approach it in the same way that I would even if it had guitars. Yeah, it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what I’m up to now, you know, but sometime last year I came up with some strange ideas I can’t put into words about texture and that’s kinda loosely, like, been my guiding force, or whatever, in making this album. 

Jon: About texture?

Ryan: Yeah, just a certain… a certain way of looking at textures. Like I said, I’ll probably have this figured out in about a year and a half, I’ll probably be able to spell it out more clearly then.

Jon: Well, you know, I think it’s amazing that — I haven’t heard your CD and I heard your copy of the tape, and it’s, it’s… really, you know, the copy of the tape I had, while good, its still real hard… You know, I couldn’t pinpoint  lyrics as well as I would have liked to, but I do know on the other record, and I’m sure on this CD, you have a very difficult decision from a recording engineer’s perspective in that you’re dealing with a guitar and a vocal and they’re both right in the midrange. How do you, I mean, I’m just always amazed that you’re able to create a complete wall of sound with lows and highs with those two key things to base it on.

Ryan: Yeah, it’s true! I agree, it is difficult to get a balance between the two. Yeah. It takes some work and I guess that’s one reason why mixing takes forever with me, not only do I need to get all the sounds right, but the balance between everything needs to be right, too. Yeah, it’s tough. 

Jon: You do a song for a compilation record, um, of Black Tape For A Blue Girl songs with a bunch of artists from Projekt and other labels.

Ryan:Yeah, “Of These Reminders.”

Jon: Yeah, “Of These Reminders.” And then you include that same song — or a different mix — on your album?

Ryan: The song we did on our album, “Tear Love From My Mind,” is not on the compilation. It’s not on “Of These Reminders.”

Jon: It’s a different song? 

Ryan: Yeah we did two other songs for the “Of These Reminders” compilation…

Suzanne: [giggles]

Ryan: … so  I guess we did a total of three Black Tape covers; two for the Black Tape compilation and one for our album. 

Suzanne: And the reason why we did, we ended up doing three covers — Black Tape For A Blue Girl covers —  is, I mean, it was so easy for us! ‘Cause we labor over our songs so much, you know, when we’re making them so to have everything already made, I mean, no lyrics to write, no vocal parts to make up, and no music part except an interpretation. It was like [snaps] cake!

Jon: It is a lot easier.

Suzanne: Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah, and it was fun, too, actually.

Suzanne: Yeah, it was fun. It was all the fun parts of making music.

Jon:  I haven’t heard the original of that but I also like that song a lot and it sounded almost like a cathartic experience, I guess that’s what Sam does. So, I mean, see that, I had this whole thing, I was like, “Whoa… what’s going on here?”

[general laughter]

Jon: OK, so that’s more of Sam’s thing.

Suzanne: Sam!